The Three Counties Bus And Commercial Vehicle Museum

Three Counties Bus and Commercial Vehicle Museum Mugs are still available. These carry the name of the group on one side, with a line drawing of RT 3496 on the other side and are priced at £5.00 each, which includes post and packing within the UK. If you are outside the UK please contact Nick for a price that includes postage to your location.
All enquiries to nick.doolan@btopenworld.com.

Congratulations!
You are a member of registered charity number 1097273. After a little negotiation and one or two false moves our application for charitable status has been accepted.

We are an educational trust; that is, we exist to educate the public about the history and operation of our vehicles, and to do that we want to preserve them. Pretty well every transport museum that is charitable is charitable on this basis. As we don’t have a museum, we have to remember that we have to get our vehicles ‘out and about’ and seen to be ‘out and about’ and meeting the public. So if you take a vehicle to a show, a fete or a carnival, please let me know.

You may recall the discussion at the last AGM about the vehicle owners’ agreement. The Charity Commission accepted the argument that the agreement was not necessary in our case but they do underline the point that if vehicle owners do benefit from accommodation provided by the Charity, then an agreement between the Charity and owner for the use of that vehicle will be necessary.

But for now, we hope that charitable status will open doors for us, and make us more viable. So an exciting project to drive us forward could not have come at a better time. An ex London Country Bristol LHS has been located. It is in good order but conversion to a mobile exhibition unit has started. So, this vehicle provides the ideal opportunity to make a mobile museum rather than a conventional preservation project. The LH will enable us to display small artefacts, and let people know about us, at any number and type of events. It will enable us to fulfil our claim more convincingly to be a museum.

Please let us know your views as to what should be displayed in the LH and if you have anything you think might be of interest that you would be happy to go on display in the LH, then again please let us know. The criteria are that it is relevant to the history and operation of buses and commercial vehicles in the ‘Three Counties’ area and that it will fit in an LH-size bus!

In addition, volunteers to help prepare the LH for its new role will of course be more than welcome!

On a personal note, my vehicle activities will be curtailed this year by the self-imposed double-whammy of moving to a house that needs a lot of work and the imminent arrival of Mini Matt. My thanks to many members for their kind wishes and support.

Matt Gamble

3CBCVM member Peter Gomm writes -
" With reference to issue 8 and the article on Rush Green Motors."

I read with interest the article in Issue 8 covering John Hammond’s visit to Rush Green Motors which included the comment made about reports of pre-war RT’s. These were not the only type of RT to arrive at Rush Green and the story is far from all doom and gloom as the article hinted at.

RT 2293 came out of Rush Green in 1984 and is one of the nicest restored buses around. It is owned by Phil Buckland and has now been restored to such good condition TWICE. Having conducted a major restoration after acquiring the bus from Rush Green, it then succumbed to arson after an attack in East Ham that damaged it and other vehicles, it was unknown at the time if he would be prepared to undertake all the hard work again but decided to part with his Green RT to ensure the Red RT was rebuilt a second time and it still attends a selection of events every year. "

The Editor Replies:
I am sorry if the article painted a grim picture of the situation, on my visit I had made no observations of any RT’s complete or otherwise, but gaining a full log would be near enough impossible, I managed to miss three coaches that Nick Doolan found on a later visit to the yard. I used a number of bus forums on the internet to trace the histories of vehicles that were present, it was then that well known photographer of all things transport related, Peter J. Relf mentioned the situation he knew about regarding the RT’s and he wondered if any remained at the site my answer hinting that either the buses had literally rotted into the background, been cut up or been refurbished and exported abroad for use in far a field places, or in the case of RT 2293 for a future in preservation.

June 1st saw the fourth and probably most successful running day centred on the Hertfordshire towns of Hertford, Stevenage and Hitchin. This year enthusiasts of all ages had been well catered for - I saw the 12-year old bus conductor (yes really!) teaching Peter Gomm a thing or two in his role as 'Fat Controller' at Hitchin (his words not mine!). There were vehicles from RT's to Leyland Nationals operating around the three operating centres - nothing newer than that so far, although I am sure it won't be long before Eddie Knorn's Leyland Olympian makes its presence known at a few running days! This year's running day included Hitchin partially to bring some United Counties interest to the event, and partially to celebrate fifty years of the 'GS' class buses. These little Guys first entered service in 1953 at Hitchin, replacing elderly pre-war Leyland Cubs on small, one-man operated country routes, of which several operated from Hitchin garage to small villages such as Weston, Preston and Datchworth that did not warrant a full-sized bus. GS2, GS17 and John Clarke's GS32 operated a number of journeys during the day on some of these long-forgotten routes. (Not by old Hitchonians they ain't - webmaster). GS2 is seen at Weston in company with Derek Larkins, who drove the bus while working at Hitchin garage before its closure.

Making its debut at Hitchin, looking resplendant in NBC leaf green, was Rob Knight's Leyland National II SVV 587W, which was delivered new to Hitchin Garage for United Counties back in 1981. 587's attendance at Hitchin was the culmination of many man hours of careful painting and restoration and the end result illustrates an important piece of United Counties history. 587 worked to Henlow Camp, Baldock, and Stevenage - and I think all who rode on her enjoyed the trip.

My own National, BPL 469T was not scheduled to operate at all, but a frantic call from Eddie Knorn on the Saturday afternoon meant that I was drafted in to cover the duties left vacant by the breakdown of Eddie's newly restored Green Line National HPF 318N, SNC 168, which has been restored to original livery, as delivered to Luton's Park Street West garage back in 1975. The fuel pump on 168 had been causing problems for some time, and it was deemed too unreliable to operate in service - thus SNB 469 spent most of the day operating on route 303 between Hitchin and Stevenage. The Nationals were timetabled to bear the brunt of the 303 / 390 Hitchin / Stevenage / Hertford trunk route, but other vehicles did operate the route, including AEC Reliance RP 21, JPA 121K, an RMC and an RF among other things. Stevenage Town Services were operated by an ex-London Country Leyland Atlantean and a Leicester Metro-Scania, to give at least a small taste of how things were in the heady days of 'SuperBus'! Hertford featured a number of the routes operated in previous years, and a bevvy of RT's and RF's were the staple diet at this end of the event.

Overall, the event was very enjoyable - running days are a chance to get out and drive or travel on a bus as it would have been in service, on real routes, and in this area we are spoilt for this type of event, with both this and the Amersham event at the beginning of October. It was also a chance for the Three Counties group to get our name across and I was glad to see a number of members vehicles carrying the vehicle affiliation notices. It is good to see buses out on the road rather than on the rally field, and both from behind the wheel and as a passenger it was a very enjoyable day.

Nick Doolan

The webmaster writes:
Speaking purely personally, and as a first-time visitor to such an event, I was really pleased to see a truly amiable and happy crowd of drivers, owners and passengers as well as the vehicles. The passengers who travelled from Stevenage on the last Hitchin trip seemed to really enjoy the journey. It was also noticeable that a couple of fashionable ladies, who really didn't fit the normal enthusiast profile with their shopping bags, were equally happy with their ride on a 25 year old Leyland National !

In my article in the last newsletter about vehicles at Rush Green Motors, I featured a photograph of a pair of consecutively numbered Guy tractor units belonging to Lunt Brothers. Having not seen any vehicles of this type before I delved a little deeper into the history of this largely forgotten design, and soon after purchased on E-Bay internet auctions a 1969 brochure for the Guy 'Big' J6T tractor unit. From what I have found out, this unit was designed in the mid-1960's with a view to the impending change in vehicle weight legislation which would increase the overall permitted length and maximum weight allowed for HGV's. By the late 1960's Guy had come under the umbrella of British Leyland, and my 1969 brochure states '...Guy Motors are the truck manufacturers in the Jaguar Group...' and it also has a British Leyland symbol on it.

The J6T was designed for the heavy end of the market, with an overall length of 20' 10" , a Cummins in-line, 6-cylinder, 14 litre engine and a maximum operating weight of 44 tons GTW. The design, although futuristic and forward looking was sadly a disaster - Guy, already weakened by failed designs such as the Wulfrunian bus, with increased pressure from British Leyland found it difficult to meet sales targets, and when the planned legislation failed to materialise, the design quickly disappeared, with the last Guy's built in the early 1970's. Evidently, the J6T was ahead of its time - had the legislation been approved it would no doubt have been more of a success. Those few that survive are testaments to a design that failed through no fault of its own - the two at the premises of Rush Green Motors are rare survivors of this unusual design. If anyone has any more information or recollections of these vehicles in use I would be most interested to hear.

Nick Doolan

Making its debut at Quainton rally on Monday 26th May was a vehicle new to the rally circuit, and now owned by 3CBCVM member Chris Wills. It is XPK 51T, RB 51 a London Country / Green Line Leyland Reliance. Before you say anything - yes it is badged a Leyland, and for very good reasons! Chris tells me that back in 1978, when Leyland were running down the old AEC factory at Southall, the chassis that was to become XPK was sent to Leyland for completion and tests. It was fitted with an AEC engine stamped with a British Leyland badge, and had a Leyland steering column. It was then sent to be bodied by Duple, and when it entered service, it was recorded by the PSV Circle as being a Leyland Reliance.

Chris has restored it to authentic Green Line livery as it would have operated from Staines Garage in the late 1970's - it is a rare survivor of a coach that was very common 20 years ago, but now only a few survive, and even fewer in a roadworthy condition. While at Quainton, RB 51 won the new 'Dave Johnson - It's Your Turn This Year Award', which was presented by well known transport journalist Philip Lamb to the best turned out 3CBCVM vehicle. Philp also took the RB out for a photo shoot, so we look forward to seeing this published soon. Chris purchased XPK as he had a need to have a vehicle out on the road whilst the restoration is finished on his other vehicle, London Transport AEC RF512. RF512 was the last RF in London Transport service, and is currently in the middle of a thorough restoration, so we look forward to seeing that soon, too. Meanwhile, we look forward to seeing RB 51 out at a few more rallies over the summer!

Nick Doolan

In amongst the items of traffic office interest recently donated to us by a widow of an ex United Counties employee, was the piece below. I guess it refers to coach drivers based at Northampton, and so may not be strictly relevant to us, but its amusement value makes it worth replicating, and besides, it raises lots of questions. What was the real difference between ‘A’ and ‘B’ rota drivers, what work did they do, and how did drivers progress from one to the other? And when was this written, and who was Mr Cox?

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE

"B" rota dvrs will always walk 1 yard to the rear of "A" rota dvrs.

When on road "B" dvrs will not overtake "A" dvers or crowd them.

When in conjested (sic) traffic conditions, "B" dvrs will use their coach to block traffic lanes to allow "A" dvrs through.

All tips and/or other monies received by "B" dvrs will be handed over an "A" rota dvr on the same road at the first available opportunity. The man on the "A" rota will then return to the "B" dvr what he considers to be his worth. On this, and all other matters, the "A" dvr decision is FINAL!

When spending the night at London, "B" dvrs will always use the 2’6" cot leaving the 3’6" luxury bed for the "A" man.

When spending the night at Nottingham "B" dvrs will always allow "A" dvrs the choice of beds, and without being asked will make tea in the morning when on the 06.30, and will bring tea to "A" dvrs in bed, and will awake "A" dvrs not by shouting, smashing dustbin lids together, banging on the metal cabinet, or any other sudden noise, but will stand at "A" dvr’s bed side with tea in hand, and clear throat until "A" dvr wakes.

When in pubs "B" dvrs will buy beer.

When in Derngate "B" dvrs will buy tea.

"B" dvrs will adhear (sic) to these "10" commandments at all times, and continue to make payments to Mr Cox’s club and after a period of not less than 24 monthly payments may be considered for "A" rota.

Disciplinary action will be taken against any "B" rota dvr failing in his duty in any one of these 10 orders. He will at the least be placed at the bottom of the "A" rota waiting list, or worst of all have Mr Cox’s club payment card withdrawn.

Signed

C.C. Rawder

Postscript to the ‘A’ and ‘B’ drivers piece.

I was reading ‘Bus Operation’ by L.D. Kitchin (1947), when I saw in the chapter ‘Timings, Bus Workings and Schedules’ a possible explanation: "The letter A after the duty number is used to signify that it is a full duty of not less than 48 hours, while B denotes duties of less than a full week. This system of identification was used on some undertakings when the road staff were graded A and B according to seniority". However, it then goes on to say that at the time of writing a 48 hour week was already guaranteed. Presumably by 1947 - and whenever this piece was written - the distinction between A and B rota drivers was purely a product of seniority.

Presumably, having staff with different working times helped economise at a time when, according to this book written just after the war, the ‘peak load factor’ (the ratio of vehicles used only at peak times to vehicles used all day) could be as high as 300%. In other words, three out of every four buses were used only at peak periods, leaving an awful lot of staff to work short days or split shifts. Interestingly, the optimum rule of thumb for the ratio of peak to off-peak buses is today reckoned to be 1.2. This reflects the fact that a) the demand for bus travel is generally much less peaked than it was, b) once you’ve put your buses out on the road for the day, you might as well keep them there and c) the understandable reluctance of drivers to work split shifts. It also allows for some daytime maintenance.

But we still don’t know exactly what the difference was between the A and B drivers in this piece!

Matt Gamble